Curse

arcanemacabre · Oct 11, 2006, 04:20 AM // 04:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yawgmoth

And we can be sure Anet doensn't want us to stop playing and do something else - they gave us plenty of things to do ingame after completing the storyline, like pvp, many different titles to max, continously changing the game and plenty of fun event to bring people back to the game, repeatable high lvl areas and obviously hunting for rare vanity items.

They don't want us to stop playing simply because if we do, we will more than likely not be interested to purchase anything else from them. There is plenty of stuff to do, as you have mentioned, and there still will be. Explain how Inscriptions will stop you from any of the foretold 'end-game' aspects.

If you reach a point where you have all the vanity skins, in all your favorite flavors, is that it for you? What about someone who has all the titles on their character? Or has bested all the top guilds, or won the championship? Is that it? You've got a situation where you've set up goals, which is fine, but once those goals are reached, where is the replay value?

There's good news, here. On the PvP end, there's solace that there is always someone better than you. You will always have a challenge. With the release of each chapter, guess what, there will be new vanity skins, new gold sinks, and new titles to strive for. This is the heart of Guild Wars' model.

Once you think you have acquired everything, and you're bored, fear not, new stuff will be added.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yawgmoth

I have to repeat myself again, that completely destroying one of those long-game-life aspects (hunting for rare vanity items) will have a bad long term effect on the game, no matter if many many players will be happy to see the update at the beginning.

I would still love to see the reasoning behind Inscriptions becomming the destruction of any aspect of Guild Wars. I guess I'm having a hard time seeing it from my "adding a whole new dimension to item modding, and thus playability"-coated glasses.

cellardweller · Oct 11, 2006, 04:26 AM // 04:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by winkgood

I've had to sell and buy in order to obtain what I want.

And thats why we need inscriptions.

UndeadRoadkill · Oct 11, 2006, 04:36 AM // 04:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by winkgood

Yes, I do have a problem with people obtaining items with ease when I took so much time and effort to obtain them. Mind if I use a real world example? What if you worked your butt off in a class all semester in order to get a good grade but then some other individual slacked off the whole semester and received the same grade. You still got the good grade so whats the problem? The problem is that it is simply unfair. Had you known in advance that you could spend much less time studying, then you might have used that time for dating, socializing with friends, working and earning money, or playing Guild Wars

So what you're telling me with this example is that if the inscription had been implemented when you started, you would be behind it (even though that contradicts your "it must not happen for the sake of the endgame" argument)? That, even though you have your items, you would still be upset over this because you're bitter over all the work you had to do, or jealous over how easily other people will be able to get them? That you oppose it because of your own personal issues, despite how much it might benefit other people? So it really is just all about the loot, and not about the playing, as you keep trying to say?

How telling your example is.

I don't care how someone else got the grade. It's none of my business, and thus, I'm not concerned. I did't cry when the value of my monstrous eyes shot down after the release of Factions, I didn't get mad when I bought a Sup. Absorption for many K, and then they dropped to 9. It's in the past, Anet isn't taking anything I have away from me, I can deal with it.

Yawgmoth · Oct 11, 2006, 04:36 AM // 04:36

arcanemacabre -> Just read again that mine sentences you quoted. I clearly stated that inscriptions will destroy the aspect of hunting for rare items. So how else should i call it, when this aspect, this whole thread is about, becomes nonexistent when simply there will be (almost) NO rare items??

winkgood · Oct 11, 2006, 04:39 AM // 04:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by cellardweller

And thats why we need inscriptions.

Nope, that's why we need an auction house. No MMORPG that I've played has enabled players to obtain every possible weapon and item on their own. In fact, even most single player RPGs make it nearly impossible to obtain everything. The endless aspect of RPGs are partially what make them so appealing. The fact that you have to interact with others to obtain things increases the social appeal and real life feel of the game. I feel that I am a good judge on aspects of RPGs as I've played computer RPGs since the original Bard's Tale and played online RPGs since the dialup days of L.O.R.D.

Trust me, I am not a fan of the "WTS" spam in LA dis 1. I usually use Guru selling forums or Guru auctions to obtain the items I want. An auction house is the answer for people to have easier access to items, not dumbing down the game and giving free handouts.

Yawgmoth · Oct 11, 2006, 04:41 AM // 04:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by winkgood

I've had to sell and buy in order to obtain what I want.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cellardweller

And thats why we need inscriptions.

Nope sir. Thats why we need a better trading system, like an auction house, to make buying and selling a pleasure. (because now its so horrible that many players hate it and want inscriptions instead)

arcanemacabre · Oct 11, 2006, 04:44 AM // 04:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yawgmoth

arcanemacabre -> Just read again that mine sentences you quoted. I clearly stated that inscriptions will destroy the aspect of hunting for rare items. So how else should i call it, when this aspect, this whole thread is about, becomes nonexistent when simply there will be (almost) NO rare items??

OK, then, perhaps I should ask why you would think there would be NO or (almost) NO rare items? As far as I can tell, these items will still be rare drops, and one would still have to hunt for them (be it farming or buying). A Gothic Sword will still be plainly rarer than a Short Sword, plain and simple. A Req. 7 Gothic Sword will still be unbelievably rare.

What this affects, and rightly so, are vanity items in general. It will become easier to get the look you want. Nothing wrong with that, and I don't see it affecting the truly rare items, so we get the best of both worlds.

cellardweller · Oct 11, 2006, 04:51 AM // 04:51

Excuse me if I snip your post up a bit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by winkgood

No MMORPG that I've played has enabled players to obtain every possible weapon and item on their own. In fact, even most single player RPGs make it nearly impossible to obtain everything. The endless aspect of RPGs are partially what make them so appealing. The fact that you have to interact with others to obtain things increases the social appeal and real life feel of the game. I feel that I am a good judge on aspects of RPGs as I've played computer RPGs since the original Bard's Tale and played online RPGs since the dialup days of L.O.R.D.

And this is exactly why I stayed away from MUDs in the olden days, and stuck with games like NWN in recent times - if you don't want to have to interact with people you don't like you don't have to.

Inscriptions give you the choice of how you want to play the game - choice is never a bad thing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by winkgood

Nope, that's why we need an auction house.

Quote:

Originally Posted by winkgood

Trust me, I am not a fan of the "WTS" spam in LA dis 1. I usually use Guru selling forums or Guru auctions to obtain the items I want.

And would you be willing to wake up at 3:30am to trade exchange items with someone on the other side of the planet? I'm certainly not.

winkgood · Oct 11, 2006, 04:51 AM // 04:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by UndeadRoadkill

So what you're telling me with this example is that if the inscription had been implemented when you started, you would be behind it (even though that contradicts your "it must not happen for the sake of the endgame" argument)? That, even though you have your items, you would still be upset over this because you're bitter over all the work you had to do, or jealous over how easily other people will be able to get them? That you oppose it because of your own personal issues, despite how much it might benefit other people? So it really is just all about the loot, and not about the playing, as you keep trying to say?

How telling your example is.

Both of these are reasons why I oppose the idea of inscriptions.

Is there a problem with me calling it unfair that Anet give handouts to the newbies where others had to work so hard to obtain those things? I held this position when +5 energy weapons were brought back and thousands who paid 100K + XX ectos were screwed over. It seems to me that many changes are done without thought to individuals. Just because the majority of the population favors something, doesn't mean that it is right. Ever heard of Majority Tyranny? You need to realize that the rights of minorities are important too.

Equally important is the preservation of the long-lasting feel of Guild Wars. Even if you aren't one of them, many players think of obtaining rare and perfect items as a goal in the game. To me, this goal is just as legitimate as obtaining fame, rank, and other titles.

I find it interesting that you wouldn't be bothered in the least bit by someone else obtaining the same grade as you despite their lack of effort. You must be a saint. Ever play any competitive sports?

Quote:

Originally Posted by cellardweller

And this is exactly why I stayed away from MUDs in the olden days, and stuck with games like NWN in recent times - if you don't want to have to interact with people you don't like you don't have to.

Inscriptions give you the choice of how you want to play the game - choice is never a bad thing.

Then you should be asking for a single player version of Guild Wars. But really, if you don't like the interaction with other people, then why did you pick Guild Wars in the first place? Certainly not for the storyline or graphics as there are games like Oblivion which has graphics and storyline that are far superior to those in Guild Wars.

Quote:

And would you be willing to wake up at 3:30am in the morning to trade exchange items with someone on the other side of the planet? I'm certainly not.

It all depends on how the auction houses are setup. If Guild Wars auctions were to be setup similar to those found in WoW, then this would not be a problem. This shouldn't be too difficult to implement since the lead developers for Guild Wars are former developers for WoW. I don't have a lot of experience with the auctions found in WoW, but they are setup in a way that the players completing the transaction don't actually have to meet up. The money and item are simply transferred after the completion of the auction.

cellardweller · Oct 11, 2006, 04:57 AM // 04:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by winkgood

Is there a problem with me calling it unfair that Anet give handouts to the newbies where others had to work so hard to obtain those things?

Ever think that you consider what you do in your rec time "working hard" a sign that you're not using effectively?

I for one, had "fun" getting my FoW.

Qual · Oct 11, 2006, 05:03 AM // 05:03

I don't like this new salvage thing, it will make the economy crash, no doubt about that...

UndeadRoadkill · Oct 11, 2006, 05:07 AM // 05:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by winkgood

Both of these are reasons why I oppose the idea of inscriptions.

Is there a problem with me calling it unfair that Anet give handouts to the newbies where others had to work so hard to obtain those things? I held this position when +5 energy weapons were brought back and thousands who paid 100K + XX ectos were screwed over. It seems to me that many changes are done without thought to individuals. Just because the majority of the population favors something, doesn't mean that it is right. Ever heard of Majority Tyranny? You need to realize that the rights of minorities are important too.

Equally important is the preservation of the long-lasting feel of Guild Wars. Even if you aren't one of them, many players think of obtaining rare and perfect items as goals in the game. To me, these goals are just as legitimate as obtaining fame, rank, and other titles.

I find it interesting that you wouldn't be bothered in the least bit by someone else obtaining the same grade as you despite their lack of effort. You must be a saint or something. Ever play any competitive sports?

Wow. This isn't a government presiding over people's lives. None of your "rights" will be infringed (not even virtual rights within the game). To make the majority happy would be best for a capitalist company (and I think it would improve the game as a whole). You'd have to be really deluded to try to make that argument with a straight face.

I don't think inscriptions will destroy the long-lasting feel for the majority of players. Maybe some will be put off. As I've said, many, many others would rather play something else than farm for hours, or sit around buying and selling. Many, many like to play the game. There are many, many things to do once you finish the story arc.

Either way, I think you betryaed the facade that you're arguing for replay value's sake when you equated the effort you put forth for obtaining your items to displeasurable work that you would rather not have done if you didn't have to in your school example.

I should be upset that I put in more effort than was required? That doesn't wash. At my college, there is more than one professor for a subject. Some professors are easier than others. If I find out that my English teacher was harder than others, I'll say "oh damn, bad spot of luck there," and move on. I'm not going to start picketing the college and demanding they dismiss an easier teacher.

Akhilleus · Oct 11, 2006, 06:16 AM // 06:16

a question from the best political assessment test in human history, and satirical one at that (http://www.geocities.com/donaldjhagen/humoroustest.html) does a fantastic job of illustrating the different points of view in this thread.

Quote:

73: How do you feel when you see news reports that say a very small percentage of Americans own a disproportionately large percentage of America's wealth?

CONS: It thrills me, because it means America still has a healthy business climate.

LIBL: It angers me, because those greedy wealthy people probably got that way by cheating the little guy, committing corporate misdeeds, and earning annual salaries many, many, many times more than the average annual salary earned by the average American worker.

LBRT: It thrills me, because it means if I really work hard, maybe one day I'll be wealthy too.

COMM: It angers me, because it demonstrates one of the most glaring failures of capitalism

you can see the 2 sides of the argument...
libertarian FTW.

(note: this post was a shameless excuse [while maintaining SOME semblence of relevance] to post the link to this otherwise great "political test" if you guys need to kill an hour or two you should read it, its funny and you may learn soemthing about yourself

)

Zehnchu · Oct 11, 2006, 06:27 AM // 06:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yawgmoth

arcanemacabre -> Just read again that mine sentences you quoted. I clearly stated that inscriptions will destroy the aspect of hunting for rare items. So how else should i call it, when this aspect, this whole thread is about, becomes nonexistent when simply there will be (almost) NO rare items??

Sorry but this statement is all wrong. Inscriptions won’t change a thing for people going after rare skins. They are not going to make rare skins stop dropping.

Quote:

Originally Posted by winkgood

Nope, that's why we need an auction house.

The whole point of your argument is that inscriptions are going to make the high end market hit rock bottom. What do you think an auction house will do? Do you think Anet will raise the storage and character platinum cap? You can bet they won’t. Plus I really doubt that the high end market people will even think about putting items up for sale that’s anything about then 1000 platinum. So basically you are saying inscriptions will destroy the high end market but an Auction House wont?

Inscriptions are not going to affect the high end market much, nor rare skins for that matter. People who want rare skins will still go for them. Inscriptions are not rare skins there for they do not change the look of a weapon, they don’t change a req 9 to a req 7.

This whole argument about what it will do and won’t do is really pointless since people can get the same stats as a rare skin weapon just not the skin. That is of course if it's based off the req 9. Other wise common drops can and will have the same stats as a rare skin.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qual

I don't like this new salvage thing, it will make the economy crash, no doubt about that...

And this is based on what fact?

winkgood · Oct 11, 2006, 06:32 AM // 06:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akhilleus

73: How do you feel when you see news reports that say a very small percentage of Americans own a disproportionately large percentage of America's wealth?

CONS: It thrills me, because it means America still has a healthy business climate.

LIBL: It angers me, because those greedy wealthy people probably got that way by cheating the little guy, committing corporate misdeeds, and earning annual salaries many, many, many times more than the average annual salary earned by the average American worker.

LBRT: It thrills me, because it means if I really work hard, maybe one day I'll be wealthy too.

COMM: It angers me, because it demonstrates one of the most glaring failures of capitalism

Very interesting that you mention this. I didn't want to say it, but a lot of the pro-inscriptionists are very fitting of the second category. I wanted to say "typical lib" to several people who posted but restrained myself so as to not get in a political debate. As in politics, the libs don't neccessarily represent the majority but are the most vocal group by far.

Phoenix Ex · Oct 11, 2006, 06:37 AM // 06:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by UndeadRoadkill

Wow. This isn't a government presiding over people's lives. None of your "rights" will be infringed (not even virtual rights within the game). To make the majority happy would be best for a capitalist company (and I think it would improve the game as a whole). You'd have to be really deluded to try to make that argument with a straight face.

I don't think inscriptions will destroy the long-lasting feel for the majority of players. Maybe some will be put off. As I've said, many, many others would rather play something else than farm for hours, or sit around buying and selling. Many, many like to play the game. There are many, many things to do once you finish the story arc.

Either way, I think you betryaed the facade that you're arguing for replay value's sake when you equated the effort you put forth for obtaining your items to displeasurable work that you would rather not have done if you didn't have to in your school example.

I should be upset that I put in more effort than was required? That doesn't wash. At my college, there is more than one professor for a subject. Some professors are easier than others. If I find out that my English teacher was harder than others, I'll say "oh damn, bad spot of luck there," and move on. I'm not going to start picketing the college and demanding they dismiss an easier teacher.

Ohh really? Many things to do? Please name them, considering I finished factions in 2 days including masters (and many people finished it in ONE day), and then 2 more days to finish all quests....In one and a half week all skill/assassin + rit runes/weapon mods unlocked....and don't get me started on how easy it is to finish some of the other stuff, and still managed to get a decent grade and have a social life. (Gw's lack of stuff to do helps

)

Please, "Rare mods are too expensive that its too difficult to get" is good enough of a reason as is (which I do agree), but no need to cover it up with "GW has a lot of things to do" and the non proven statments "majority will be happy" and "the items will still be rare" BS.

To me at least, the rarity of an item is not its drop rate compare to the other items. To me it all depends on the time needed. It doesn't matter if req 7 sephis axe or something else drop less often than a white long sword. If the inscription makes it so that it takes 2 weeks to get, its not rare. My standard is that something that takes over 4 months to get is rare. (aka the current crystalline sword)

arcanemacabre · Oct 11, 2006, 06:48 AM // 06:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akhilleus

[while maintaining SOME semblence of relevance]

Ahh so true. At least this part.

Luckily, what we're talking about here is a video game, which some people enjoy playing because it's an escape from reality. Too much stress in the real world as it is, do we really need this same stress in a game, too?

Clearly, the kind of game you want to play is vastly different from the kind I want to play. Can we both have our cake and eat it, too? Hmm... Doesn't seem so.

As far as personal political view of capitialism, I completely agree with the point of view that we should work for what we want. I'm not jealous in the least of wealthy because I know if I really wanted it, I'd simply work for it. I also have no problems how said people acquire their wealth, as long as they don't step on my toes to get it.

Simply put, this doesn't belong in a video game, unless that video game was based on playing stocks. Adventuring and killing baddies in a medieval setting? Please. Keep it where it belongs.

UndeadRoadkill · Oct 11, 2006, 07:14 AM // 07:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phoenix Ex

Ohh really? Many things to do? Please name them, considering I finished factions in 2 days including masters (and many people finished it in ONE day), and then 2 more days to finish all quests....In one and a half week all skill/assassin + rit runes/weapon mods unlocked....and don't get me started on how easy it is to finish some of the other stuff, and still managed to get a decent grade and have a social life. (Gw's lack of stuff to do helps

)

Please, "Rare mods are too expensive that its too difficult to get" is good enough of a reason as is (which I do agree), but no need to cover it up with "GW has a lot of things to do" and the non proven statments "majority will be happy" and "the items will still be rare" BS.

To me at least, the rarity of an item is not its drop rate compare to the other items. To me it all depends on the time needed. It doesn't matter if req 7 sephis axe or something else drop less often than a white long sword. If the inscription makes it so that it takes 2 weeks to get, its not rare. My standard is that something that takes over 4 months to get is rare. (aka the current crystalline sword)

I'm only responding to arguments others have brought up, which are more BS than you claim mine are, so don't give me that crap, buddy. I didn't assert that "the majority will be happy with the inscription system," I was saying in response to his insane argument that Anet should be catering to the wealthy minority that it would be in their best interest to please the majority instead. Try telling the anti-inscriptionists that "'Rare mods are too expensive that its too difficult to get' is good enough of a reason as is," it doesn't work.

You can play it all again with a new build and play style, play PvP, cap every skill for all your characters, collect every style of armor for your characters, max out your titles (plenty right there), start a new guild, help out your new guildies with missions and quests, fill up your gold storage allotment. And you can still try to collect all your weapons by random drop, nobody's taking that away from you. Sounds like "many" things to do to me, but I'm just a lousy whiney "casual" player, what do I know?

Nightwish · Oct 11, 2006, 07:18 AM // 07:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by winkgood

Unforunately, I did not obtain the majority of my weapons through my own farming. I've had to sell and buy in order to obtain what I want. An auction house would have made this a lot easier, but thats another issue.

Yes, I do have a problem with people obtaining items with ease when I took so much time and effort to obtain them. Mind if I use a real world example? What if you worked your butt off in a class all semester in order to get a good grade but then some other individual slacked off the whole semester and received the same grade. You still got the good grade so whats the problem? The problem is that it is simply unfair. Had you known in advance that you could spend much less time studying, then you might have used that time for dating, socializing with friends, working and earning money, or playing Guild Wars

Don't give me the argument that the student that worked hard still gained knowledge from the class that the other didn't. We all know that most of what we learn from University level classes will soon be forgotten unless its directly applicable to our career path. The main reason for secondary education is for that piece of paper that says you know something, not for the random knowledge you obtain through GE's.

Based on your point of view, the people in developing countries who is struggling harder to survive should deserve more. Why dont you use the money you spend on GW to donate to them instead?

The point I am trying to make is hard work is not the only deciding factor in life. There are others such as aptitude, social network, guidance and just plain luck.

I find it quite strange that someone can complain about a game that requires less time from them to play.

Akhilleus · Oct 11, 2006, 07:40 AM // 07:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nightwish

Based on your point of view, the people in developing countries who is struggling harder to survive should deserve more.

a lot of companies agree with you there, hence the increased amount of outscourcing.